I didn't want to respond to all of one of the other post within that post... didn't want to hyjack the thread...



I remember Tourist from other forums. He is an interesting guy and hard to understand, but in the soul we all are, just most pool with the masses to be accepted. I don’t think he struggles to be liked, but like most of us he feels compelled to express his opinion and most folks don’t like someone telling them how they really feel… most folks only care about how they feel themselves and care to listen to folks that favor that opinion and ridicule folks that don’t. It’s not easy for people to embrace controversial views… it’s not comfortable and it tends to piss us off when it makes us take a good look at ourselves. The people that own forums and folks that stroll in or out of forums are just people… and most are good people. When it comes to moderators or admins, they are just people and most are not equipped to handle all people.

Tourist reminds me of an eccentric family member that has seen a lot and has valuable information, but you just never know what they will say. My father in law is biker from the 60’s. He is different and there is no telling what he will say. He is very intelligent and even has patent on a product he developed. It took me a while to understand him, not that I do completely, but I see how much value he has in our family. The stories form his old biker days, the bikes he built, politics, Vietnam, and when he moved on past that life… all interesting stuff. I think he is from the same generation as the Tourist… they are different, but valuable.

A forum is not a “brotherhood” or a “family”. It’s a place to meet folks with a similar interest and swap advice, stories, and pass the time. You have several generations of people, genders, and they all get to be whomever they want behind their keyboard. Combine that with moderators that volunteers on a website that is designed to generate some cash flow if for nothing else to break even. Membership is free… you get what you got. It’s not a bad thing, but it is limited in its scope as that what it will be.,, a brotherhood it will never be.

Well said Kickstand. I concur.

I liked Tourist. I felt bad for Tourist. I felt Tourist was misunderstood(forum after forum) like many of his generation back in the day (truly old school, rarely see them on forums) and when bikers weren't as main stream accepted as they are today. Back in his day bikers were reviled and seen as a group to be avoided and looked down your nose at. We didn't always agree. In fact we would beg to differ often. I did vehemently support his right to a public opinion dispite its often unpopular and not fitting in well...tone and content. He was a breath of fresh air from the otherwise circle jerk agreement of continuity that is the trend on most forums and which tend to be surepeditiously superficial.

Tourist was in his 60's. He rode and retired with a club about a tier or 2 below a 1% in its hey day, canoodling and tippy toeing with the likes of the HA and AOA for credibility and to survive...so consequently his opinion of things varied greatly from the avg riders of today and whose suspect MC's pop up left and right flooding the roads today slinging the word "brotherhood" around like they really know what it means. Thats the truth of it.

In truth and dispite Tourists content and delivery at times, any forum was lucky to have had him. To bad we didn't learn how to be more excepting. Brotherhood is like friendship... basically another person who knows everything about you and likes you anyway.

Posters of today who failed to disagree and tolerate Tourist, in a nut shell, exemplify just how far the brotherhood of yesteryear really has fallen.

Me and Tourist talked often and for long times on the phone. I haven't heard from him since his banning. And I find that odd as we would continue to talk despite our varied and often oposing positions on topics motorcycle related, especially when I was banned. He pressed and pursued me not to bail and move on. HRF is a good place he'd say and he'll get this straightened out. That others felt the same way. Damned if it some how didn't happen.

After he was banned I gave him his space. He wasn't returning my messages and he wasn't calling me. I figure he just accepted he didn't fit in any more and his position was antiquated. I do know he initially really loved and supported this thinking he had finally found a home.

Perhaps Tourist should have been more sensitive to peoples feelings and acquiesed his opinions to that. Perhaps that just wasn't his way and we should have been more understanding and tolerant, even to that extent?

Perhaps as Kickstands alludes to...lets just see forums for what they are, not for what they could be?

Tourist had every opportunity to be a constructive member of this forum. He lasted longer here then any other forum that he belonged to, much to my bad judgment. He posted and had plenty to say but really never gave anything that would help another biker. He picked on many who would have been great members and posted constructively. He chased away over 50 good people that will never come back.

Yes a forum can be a great place to meet new people and have lasting relationships. I know this as I do meet riders from all over. It is what you make of it, if you have a good heart and are friendly that is what you will attract. Nobody wants drama there is enough of it in everyday life, just look around. People come here not to be put down or argue but to get away and visit with others that are like minded and have some fun. Not that a constructive argument is all bad but could be good and helpful.

The internet makes it very easy to hide behind a keyboard. It is unfortunate that we need to have mods but they are necessary to keep the forum clean and neat.

The tourist was self destructive, in every correspondence he gave me he always talked about when he would be banned. My own feeling is that he pushed until that happened and his agenda was to get banned from every forum that he joined. This I believe was his badge of honor.

As for me this matter is closed and I have said enough on this subject.

HM, I wasn't advocating the return of tourist or anyone. It was just a response to a statement. I was a sysop in the 90'.... before the internet boom if forums. I felt your pain back then.... old school. I havent read tourist post on this forum and dont intend to. Tourist knew what he was doing.

My post was about forums... not tourist. I have watched admins and mods provoke and abuse people through the years. That is usually why people leave, not because of one member. Dont take my post personally. It wasnt directed at you or whomever the mods are. It comes from many years of watching it. I have also seen some very good mods...

Thats one way to look at it but not the only way.

Tourist hasn't been on in quite awhile and many,many new posters have come and gone. Must be the ghost of Tourist past,lol.

Tourist gave many pearls of 2 wheeled wisdom, just nothing that put a bead on todays version of a Harley rider. Much of which fell on deaf ears because, well, its sunded ludacris but it was fact.

Todays HD rider crowd is generally screwed. Generally and with exceptions the HD has become the status symbol for the confidence lacking, monetarily succesful I want it all now crowd.

If people left it was because they took themselves to serious. He chewed on me every where all the time and I just chuckled. Its only one persons perspective. Of course I don't take myself to seriously.Oh and I chewed back and he as well was water off a ducks back.

Called Tourist today and he's doing just fine. Better for not wasting time on motorcycle forums anymore. He's a dinosaur by todays motorcycle culture. I mean that as a compliment and observation. Sure he's quirky but you couldn't ask for a better person to be on your side. Loyalty...hmm thats another inconsequential quality by most.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I respect yours and anyone elses opinion even if it greatly differs from mine. I sure expect the same courtesy but I'm not delusional either.

Its still a testement to intolerance when a poster gets kicked out of school because his opinions are different. One shouldn't have to walk on egg shells or completly alter who they are to conform to have an ability to connect with others.

To me Tourist is a legend and God bless. I hope he never canges. I don't thik he will. At some point you get to old to change. You like who you like and don't like who you don't like and thats that,lol.....I guess?

I have an idea...just a thought to consider, kind of a new spin on an old ideology..before we kick anyone off we should have a thread asking why does so and so do or say the things they do. Call the person out and give the person a chance to explain themselves, here what others feel and an oportunity for others to perhaps grasp and have a better understanding of the offending poster?

Then if a poster is banned at least they had a legitimate chance to possibly understand how and why they are perceived? Clubs and MC's do kick members out. Not before due process if they chose.

Just trying to think of some honorable way of handling issues like this.

Tourist really liked this place. Suported it through many a lagging moment(ghost town for weeks and weeks). His oft misunderstood passion was a driving force here, stimulating conversation and keeping the board hopping. That cannot be denied and be the truth.

I agree in concept, but we are guest here. We are free to come and go as we please, but we have to obey the house rules.

If a group was formed that had some requirements:
1) Must meet in person - so you know who you are letting in.
2) Rules and officers are formed
3) cost are shared (monthly dues)
4) NO ONE OWNS IT

Then everyone has a vote... everyone is a stake holder... so removing someone would take more than one person banning them. Since the group would tend to stay small, it would be best to narrow the scope as to who you let in. That is closer to what some folks are seeking... a group of like minded people to shoot the bull with... everything is fair... cost are shared.

Sounds good but won't ever happen.

I once was a co owner admin of a well used and popular forum. A history forum. Eventually my co admin who had more control than me because he knew how to work the inner workings of the forum(he was technical I was content) better then me got greedy and stabbed me in the back for what he thought was a win win for him and went in business with what he thought was a 100% guarantee new forum. So he abandoned what we had worked so hard to create and started a new one with his new sure bet and it flopped. Flopped miserable and to this day. Poster/people aren't stupid. His new venture turned into a lose lose.

I don't mind the way forums are currently run. And its not easy and is thankless most of the time. I just wish a banned person would get a better shake. Some kind of reasonable process prior to. Maybe even a posted pole vote after a fair discussion was held on the matter. I know in the times I've been banned had I been given a fair opportunity to explain myself and had a consensus vote on it I wouldn't have been banned. Or I would have seen the error in how I was percfeived and I would have apologized and made the adjustments necessary to eliminate or at least minimize my perceived misposts.


HRF is as good as it gets and I do publically appreciate the opportunity to post here. I do also understand the effort it takes to maintain this forum and appreciate that as well. While various egoes do make there presence felt at times its at a minimum.

How do you know it's not already built?

On another note, possibly whomever owns this web site can setup an area that is password protected and by invitation only for folks that want to get involved in controversial topics... with some rules. That way folks like Tourist can air out thier cranium without the owner cringing over the content. The agreement could be that they have to participate and be more politically correct in the public areas.

I'm a bridge builder...