Tourist: You really do make me chuckle. Not once did I ever indicate that I didn't appreciate your advice, nor that I would need heed your warning. In fact I posted yesterday that I figured I got the answers I sought by posting here, and thanked everyone for their input (that included you).

My gripe is with your methods. Not once did you present your advice with any ounce of respect, especially not with any old school respect.

Instead you immediately sought to demean me with your interjections of me being a RUB or an SOA poser. Truth be told I didn't even know what the hell SAO was about until a few weeks ago when somebody told me about it. I'm not a big fan of the TV so why would I know anything about SOA or care about some TV show. I loathe that type of pop culture mentality.

I said it last night, and I still maintain that your scorched earth policy for responding to me is way out of line. You judged me with your own biases, the same types of bias that gets MC members judged every single day... and that makes you a hypocrite of sorts. I don't like it.

I said it before, I'll say it again. I came here seeking answers. I got those answers. Thank you.... to you, and to everyone who took the time to provide those answers.

How the hell else was I supposed to find the answers when I had doubts from my own research but to ask...

Sure I'll talk to local MC members here and get their take, but it's obvious to me that you feel strongly about the subject and I respected your opinion and the advice you provide when I asked. But why be the curmudgeon and immediately fry me because I don't have the answers, or because you want to perceive me as some RUB because I'm new here. You have no idea how far off you are on that one.

I'm a big boy... I've dealt with people like you my entire life, and quite successfully I might add. You can't chase me away, but you do make me shake my head and wonder... is this how you treat all people, or just forum members?

I'll fight to the death for your rights to an opinion -- whether I agree with you or not. I'll fight to the death for your right to defend your colors -- if that's what's important to you. Hell, I'll fight to the death for the rights of any American. But I'll be damned if I'll sit back and be shown the disrespect you shoveled out to me based on some twisted bias that doesn't apply to me.

We can agree to disagree -- that's my way of thinking. But I'll never seek your head on a platter... as a Christian you surely must understand that concept.

Now I would say this discussion is closed as the original poster because I got the answers I was seeking.

I would expect us all to provide a level of respect and dignity around here -- newbies and old timers.

My grandfather always told me "You get more with sugar then you will with vinegar."

But more importantly, I would suggest you won't get through to anybody by being a curmudgeon with a scorched earth policy.

Food for thought.

I'm out!

Cwebster4, it's not just you personally I was speaking to, and I meant you no disrespect. This is not the first time this has happened to me. Please read this.

Several years ago I was a member of a more 'neighborhood biker' forum. The guys had Harleys, but more retired baby boomers than bad boys. One day a guy said he had used his photoshop program to design colors and it would be a hoot to form a cyber cycle club. The idea went viral.

In doing this, they told a lot of jokes, razzed bike clubs in general and then stated they were going to actually sew up colors, and possibly go to Sturgis. They were in the eastern seaboard area and would most likely use the Insterstate system cutting across many states and towns. I gave them the same advice I gave here.

Imagine twenty bikes--with their wives--riding through dozens of club turf areas, unannounced, flying strange colors on a Sturgis week where everyone is a little wild and on vacation, having had a few beers. I told them to take their colors off and stash them in the saddlebags.

Now get this--this is a true story. They were so clueless about clubs they called my people and filed a complaint. A complaint? Our boys didn't even know what to do about it. Two enforcers came to see me at a sharpening stand and told me about the call. They had done research, agreed I had told the RUBs the truth, and then we laughed our asses off. My club's only concern was that people might think I was an official club spokesman--I am not.

(Here's an example of the problem. One of the RUBs said in a public forum that since they drank milk they were not outlaws but 2%ers. And the jokes continued.)

However, someone else must warned them about foolish behavior and they have become a touring cooperative. They should have done that right away.

However, on their official homepage I still listened as a "former 1%er" despite the fact that my club has been non-outlaw from its inception, I have never been a member of a 1% club, nor have I ever worn such a patch. They don't even know common things that they joke about.

Now, when I say "you" in a debate, sometimes I mean the editorial 'you,' not you as an individual. I ride/rode with a good club, and to this day you can ride right into the clubhouse parking lot and ask for help, and get it. I'm proud of that.

This is not the national standard. Some clubs attack anyone who rides through their turf as a common event. The idea of a false flag is foolish, and not needed, by you or anyone.

As for vets, I have volunteered with shifts at the vets' hospital and sharpening for free to deployed soldiers. The criteria of you emblem was not the issue, just the overall idea.

But I am troubled by the idea of clueless people trying to make this an "us vs. them" debate when the real issue is safety by providing possibly unknown information. Talk to other bikers. If you know an MC member get his thoughts on false colors. Tell him what I told you.

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LOL Oh no cwebster4 not allowed to do that. You started a new thread and asked a very good question, very good. It was deserving of a good debate. AND WOE NELLY YOU GOT ONE. When I saw the original post all I could think was "OH NO HERE WE GO AGAIN!" LOL. You see this thread was already on it's way to becoming bigger than the original post. In my opinion that is what makes a very good thread and what makes a good forum. Like I have already stated before. There are forums out there that would closed this thread before the first reply was submitted and you would have been scolded like you are some little child in PM. You would not have gotten your answer. My suggestion would be since you have already got your answer, kick back, relax, keep adding to the forum and have some fun with your thread don't worry It will die of natural causes sooner or later. They always do.

OK, let me state the facts- IF you want to throw your hat in with the TURDIST that is your decision,
You can go back and check - all the information is here:
Until the 2 of you signed up the terms (poser, key board commando, lint trap tech, etc... ) were never used.
The 2 of you, if anyone, are turning this forum into everything it is not and was not intended.
The mission statement on the front page reads:
"IF you ride or just dream of owning YOU ARE WELCOME..." that pretty much covers anyone that knows what the words Harley Davidson mean.

I don't care about a difference of opinion, that is exactly what a forum is about, I welcome different views and all the knowledge of the experienced riders and questions of newbs with no knowledge at all.
If a person wears gloves without fingers, so be it. If a guy has 2 bikes in his garage and has plenty of money so be it. If he drinks ladies drinks and constantly complains so be it. The world spins on the differences of people.

DISRESPECT IS NOT TOLERATED, the Turdist is disrespectful and that and only that is my beef.

As for the popular kids, dude you really make me laugh my azz off.
In high school I was picked on and fought my way to the top, I am not by any stretch of anyone's imagination a popular kid here. I've paid my dues over the years and if anything earned my "colors" here just like in the real world. What are my colors? Well they aren't sewn on my back but in my blood, sweat and tears. My colors are all the lessons my Father taught me, all the lessons life has taught me and all the tears I've cried as a grown man. This tread, this forum, the internet is just an outlet for my entertainment and I enjoy my time spent here. One of the first posts Turdist wrote was that he wanted to be a mod on here, to that I laughed in his face... Now I know my gut instinct was correct.

As for being blocked, that has got to be the most feminine thing a man can do, other than constantly complain and moan like he did in the thread "the chat room is open for business" and guess what? After his many posts as to why the forum DOES NOT NEED A CHAT ROOM, he was on there last night using it.
He needs a keeper and you my friend, and I do mean that you are my friend, and at some level so is he, you have become his keeper, and ALL THE DRAMA IS FROM THE 2 OF YOU.

By you stating your opinion and calling it factual won't change the truth of things and that is the way a forum works.

Brother, and we are all brothers in the wind, I dont throw kind words I tell it as it is, if you feel them kind than that is the way it is. I don't do cheap shots, I take aim, release my breath and pull the trigger in between heart beats. You calling me a "Drama Queen" not only makes me laugh but tells a story of misplaces alligence for a friend, even if wrong you're going to go down fighting right next to him...
Good for him, bad for you. I watched a buddy of mine hit on another mans woman at a tavern a long time ago. As things heated up, he turned to me and said "you got my back?" I did and we both got the crap beat out of us... That never happened again, I don't fight for the wrong anymore. Turdist claims he is a man and that his actions are his... Don't make them yours. As for my character please don't make the mistake of my kindness as a weakness - that has happened before and those that did that, learned the lesson fast and furiously and it only needs to happen once.
A bully is someone that picks weakness and then exploits it for thier own gain, that would make the 2 of you ganging up as a team the bullies here, not me standing up for a member of this forum.
So why is it when I speak my mind in earnest I'm a bad guy? or a bully or a Drama Queen?
Dude like I said before, you got the wrong friend.

I'm not sticking up for him, cwebster4, he seems to do a great job on his own, but think of this, why is it you need to address this man? especially on someone elses behalf? especially because he was disrespectful?

I believe that the Falkland Islands happened during his tour... just some history, I might be wrong...

I have a nephew that signed up before 9/11 and he was deployed, peace time is a temporary thing, signing up during peace time means nothing- just ask my nephew.

RK..its not drama, its other posters who have formed a alliance amongst themselves and with the expectation that others will follow the company line,ergo a prepackaged opinion. There are many who have no problems doing that and there are some who do.

With regards to the words posers,lint trap etc...while its is a free country and support everyones rights,its laughable to see many try so hard to take on this perceived biker persona not to mention the strerotypical biker holloween cosume. And so that observation comes up in discussion..so what. Its a motorcycle forum. We talk about all tings Harley and riding.

While you preach respect you do not lead by example. Calling Tourist the name that you do lends itself to respect how?

I am not throwing my hat in with Tourist, I will try to defend anyone whose opinion is being to be squashed. There was a argumentative poster that came here once with a chip. Nobody wanted him to leave, I encouraged him to stay but when he saw none was buying his line he left. There are no Roberts rules on how to express oneself and speaking from the heart is one of the better guideline...for me anyways. Tourist does the sme thing. I think the problem is some folks have thin skin. Some people cannot see past there own insecurities and differences with other people.

I'm not a bully at all. I am exploting no one. It has been both you and glider who among other things have tried to publically rally and rail against Tourist and that have tried unsuccesfuly to turn me against Tourist. I don't and you get pissed and start showing your arse. You need to check yourself.

I don't see where he has done any wrong other than having an opinion different from yours and glider. Your attacks are blantant,personal,public and have nothing to do with the content of discussion. A counter and controversial opinion on a matter should not make people like you and glider come unglued.

I realize this is a business, the forum and that there is a modicum of expectation of profit or at least breaking even .........but on a good day diversity and oposite opinions and thoughts rule the day. Letting people dialogue albeit thru controversey has been what made this forum so awsome and it'll keep getting bigger poster by poster. So its not for the feint of heart..its about time.

I'm not defending Tourist I am trying to make you and glider understand you don't have to agree but the poster should have a right to his opinion regardless that its different from you guys. I also understsand the mechanics of forums and the sstrength of this one was allowing individuals to have their opinion and have their opinion disagreeed with. You and glider have turned it ugly and personal.

I was unaware of any difference it military time stuff until I was in the legion the other day and read where the gaps in eligibility exist and why. I didn't invent it. Past peacetimes are established. Why would the Legion exclude peace time vets? Because its all about the combat vet. Its very honorable to have served and received an honorable D/C. No comparrison between peacetime and combat vet period.

Tourist was not disrespectful. CWebster asked an opinion, Tourist gave hs opinion and you didn't like it. You dramatised a simple opinion. This is a public forum and people comment on other peoples comments. Its the lay of the land. Now you're being rediculous because I guess you can say and do what ever you want and others can only formulate an opinion if it passes your criteria..really..

I see your point of view... NOT
I think calling a member here a poser is ugly.
I think judging any member here is disrespectful.
I am just fed up with it and gave him and you both over a year to get that crap out of your systems and it continues to this day.
I think Turdist and yes that is how I will refer to him because that is what He contributes - turds
I can go back to so many threads and read his turds that don't add anything but his ugly disrespect.
I'm not trying to separate friends. You have a friend and good for him.
This is drama, you telling me false truths. The records stand for all to see, all the posts all the threads.
Maybe you read things and get a different meaning? But the world can see the truth.
I deal in reality, seems that when I read your posts here you are in a fantasy in which you make yourself out to be the persecuted but the truth is that you 2 are the persecutors with the name calling, (posers and such). there in lies the problems and you just don't seem to get it.
As for glider or any other member here, I don't have his phone number, or anyone elses...
I don't spend long hours on the phone complaining about what goes on here or anywhere else on the internet. Turdist has given me his phone number numerous times, I never called... know why? cause I don't want to hear his drama.

So call me a drama queen and tell me i have character flaws... just goes to show who the bigger man is.
I won't return the favor.

My father taught me a golden rule:
Never argue with a fool, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Therefore I will leave this subject at that and let you debate it with yourself.

There is nothing to get. He wasn't calling the poster a poser, it was an opinion that people who try to emmulate 1%'s as posers. The post are not personal you are taking it personal. Reading things into it that are not there. I hate to break it to you but the world does not agree with your position. You are having a windmill moment. (Don Quixote fighting windmills).

I don't feel persecuted. I pointed out you were getting hostile because I would not side with you against Tourist and you were. But I don't feel persecuted in the least,never have. I don't mind becoming your new poster child for windmill fights.

Me begging to difer with you makes neither one of us bigger or smaller. Or the better or the worst man.

It is obvious I am having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

I wasn't raised by a father I was an adopted orphan type,so I have no pearls of paternal wisdom. I do know that this trash that you post is not the real you. I do appreciate your expressing your opinions anyway you feel. I am glad, we are fortunate that we are allowed the leeway here. Its refreshing. I'd rather you post something ridulously heinous and which you often do then have you banned for any reason. So rock on RK. And thanks HM.

Or should I have let you have the last word since you are the self ordained head bull here?