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The Tourist |
Post subject: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:56 am |
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:05 pm Posts: 1286 |
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What do you get when you cross-pollinate a Sportster 48, left over Crossbones parts and old front ends from a Duo-Glide? If you guessed "debris from the Titanic" you're closer than you think.
I received an e-mail from Harley yesterday about the 'new' Softail 'Slim.' The 'slim' stands for 'slim on ideas.'
But when you have the financial clout to buy black paint by the skid pallet, welding together diverse parts like a giant Tinker Toy Set makes anything possible.
Perhaps the Blackline isn't selling too well or too many old Crossbones parts are cluttering up the assembly line. Perhaps bigger men wanted a '48' and squeaked to Willie G at Sturgis. Maybe there's a betting pool at MoCo designed to see how many parts bikes they can make before someone remarks, "Now wait a minute..."
Maybe they finally ran out of 96-inch engine parts and had to shove a few older 2011 left-over 103-inch engines into something. It's hard to imagine what they're thinking. But you cannot be a badass RUB if you're on last year's cookie cutter outlaw bike. Is it such a problem in leaving your mother at home that every new black bike has to have a solo seat? Clean the lint trap when you get home!
With an entire nation full of unemployed talent, is it so hard to find and hire a designer who knows how to innovate!
"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'
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The Tourist |
Post subject: Re: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:22 am |
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:05 pm Posts: 1286 |
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Now that I have bled off some of my ire, let me explain what I think is a "good bike."
Big cruisers and touring bikes only serve a segment of our ranks. There is also another large segment that wish to purchase what we used to call 'back-the-day a "motorcycle."
That group doesn't need a GPS to find a country road, conchos purchased by the pound, the incessant whine of crappy music and mom's voice on the Bluetooth, and groundbreaking 'innovations' like a thermometer that tells you the temperature of the air in which you're already sitting.
This is why I like the '48' and why I think it's an important bike to build. Other than the bean-counter stock shock absorbers, it's the idea of the orignal Sportster. Smaller, simpler, devoid of new-age bric-a-brac and just something fun to ride for the novel idea of just going for a spin.
It's not what some idiot thinks a modern guy should want, but it's a bike with the crap removed. I don't think a bike designer should ever say, "What other piece of poser doggie-doo can we bolt on here that looks good when we spray it black?"
More to the point, it shouldn't look like a millionaire might imagine a chopper or a bobber. Many real-deal bikers rode a Matchless, a 350cc Honda CB or CL, a BSA 441 Victor, and yes, Sonny Barger ran an entire organization sitting on an old 883cc Sportster.
Wheels, engines, a comfortable seat, a suspension that actually 'suspends' the rider. How frakking hard can that be? And why do we tolerate bin bikes?
"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'
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badinfluence63 |
Post subject: Re: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:05 am |
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Road Captian |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am Posts: 1966 |
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Tourist..to each his own..another mans junk is another mans treasure and finally beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think the MOCO has done an absolute steller fantastic job and in spades in the style, design,fit and finish arena. The bkes since Sonny Bargers day are infinitely heads and shoulders above what they used to have no other choice in riding. Transitioning other parts in other configuration only makes sense and to me it works. And what the MOCO has done forever with success.
I admire the Switchback, the Slimline and other MOCO re inventions. Well done, paint job second to none and consequently why the other manufacturers are always copying HD style..the list being too many to post. They got look alike Vrods, Sportsters, Dressers, glides etc.. so while I heartily support your position I strongly disagree with it.
And in regards to the subjective less then stellar parts in key places..perhaps its thought by the MOCO that the average HD owner ends up customizing the bike to meet their particular strengths and weakenesses? I know I have with each and every bike I have ever owned to include pipes,seat handle bars and carbs. MOCO can't possibly tailor make every bike to each person. I've always thjought of that as one of the persk of owning a Harley.
Long live Harley-Davidson and the driving forces behind the MOCO!!!
To expect to be perfect is unreasonable, to strive for perfection is reasonable. 2015 Ultra Classic Low.
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badinfluence63 |
Post subject: Re: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:11 am |
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Road Captian |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am Posts: 1966 |
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*I meant to say I heartedly support your right to an opinion not I heartedly support your position.
To expect to be perfect is unreasonable, to strive for perfection is reasonable. 2015 Ultra Classic Low.
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The Tourist |
Post subject: Re: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:22 pm |
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:05 pm Posts: 1286 |
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I understand your position, and I agree that the MoCo product offered now is better in every way than the stuff we used to ride. The design sucks, however.
Case in point, go to the March 2012 issue of Iron Works magazine. Towards the front of the mag you'll find an article entitled "Stu's Slick Sleeper." It's the story of a guy who bought an FXE and fixed it.
While he says he "left it stock," he rebuilt the motor, added inches, he completely replaced the front end, added air progressive rear shocks, and he now has double-disc brakes on the front wheel.
Nothing fancy, nothing over the top, just quality parts resulting in enhanced performance, better steering and braking and a better ride. In other words, the bike we should be getting from MoCo.
Instead we get parts bins bikes, black paint and RUB styling.
I understand that you and I ride completely different bikes. But consider this, let's say that I took a stock modern Electra-Glide-ish Harley and fixed it in the same manner. No chintzing. Better brakes, a better suspension, an engine that breathed better, had the correct download, made more useable power, ran cooler and coupled to a re-built transmission that didn't sound like a wet brick hitting a ten penny nail.
In other words, the best garbage wagon I knew how to build. You'd be happy to ride it, and people would start wondering why it had to be built in the after-market.
So I ask you, if I can do it, why doesn't MoCo build it? So instead they offer a re-mix of parts that creates bikes from our past. Who's kidding who?
"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'
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badinfluence63 |
Post subject: Re: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:54 pm |
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Road Captian |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am Posts: 1966 |
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I consider Harleys design and style superior and factory specs preferred. Yes there can be improvements. S&S makes a better carb, PM better brakes. And theres more. However once you start focking with factory specs you'd better know what you're doing. Most people don't. I've been on both ends of that stick. Consequently for me I prefer OEM and factory specs and any improvements made ...factory specs. Case in point with all the aftermarket fuel managers like the Power Commander line up..anything but the MOCO SE fuel management system will fail you eventually.The aftermarket fuel managers are built to fool the MOCO codes. The MOCO SE fuel managers are built MOCO code friendly of course. Don't believe me I don't care. Get broke down in the middle of no where because you installed one of the many after market fuel managers and it wasn't able to "fool" a factory code.
Pick your poison. Me....I prefer Factory specs and OEM parts. They cost more because they are worth it.
Perhaps you are a Honda rider in Harleys clothing,lol.
To expect to be perfect is unreasonable, to strive for perfection is reasonable. 2015 Ultra Classic Low.
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The Tourist |
Post subject: Re: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:57 pm |
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:05 pm Posts: 1286 |
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I only use MoCo parts, and super-tuners, built by factory trained mechanics and dyno tuned. That's the state of the art now.
However, after I had the factory download installed for a Sportster with better mufflers and a more free-flowing air filtration system, the bike ran better and cooler. The wrench concurred that this mixture of parts and programs should have been installled from the factory.
I think MoCo is just sitting on their laurels, leaning out the bikes to make EPA numbers and trying to dazzle up with new combinations of chrome and paint. The V-Rod is ten year old technology, and while our most 'modern' bike, it's an egg crate compared to the new Yamaha V-Max. We need to improve the bikes, not simply the luggage racks.
We're falling behind.
"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'
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badinfluence63 |
Post subject: Re: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:17 pm |
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Road Captian |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am Posts: 1966 |
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Thats funny. I don't see where you can ever remotely insinuate that when so many other manufactorers immulate harleys style. And the Harley reliability is there but how would you know that? My 10 year old (at the time) 2001 Ultra got me to the west coast and back,over 7000 miles w/out a remote glitch of any kind. EFI making the high altitude adjustments as needed. 2-3 ol changes and a tire...thats all. Whats wrong with that? To Key West and back,no problem. To Marble falls and back, no problem etc etc.. And had the nerve to look good doing it too,lol.
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To expect to be perfect is unreasonable, to strive for perfection is reasonable. 2015 Ultra Classic Low.
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The Tourist |
Post subject: Re: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:11 pm |
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:05 pm Posts: 1286 |
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My overall opinion is that the issue that separates "us" from 'them' is a matter of R/D.
For example, you can google videos of product evaluation groups and find a bunch of bikers listening to Harley exhaust pipe sounds in a bezillion dollar sound research facility. MoCo dumps money into the sound of a v-twin. This is R/D that is going to take us into the future?
When MoCo introduced the new 96-inch engine, I read a blurb that said they made 206 changes. What did they do, really? Change their lockwasher suppliers?
This kind of stuff drives me up the wall. When the Blackline first came out they wrote up an article showcasing how they made the new handlebars. This is never going to change as long as we put up with it.
If I could bend Willie G's ear I might say something like, "How about a few more better bikes and a few less LED lights." Do folks still use the phrase "panties on a pig"?
"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'
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The Tourist |
Post subject: Re: Another parts bin bike. Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:31 am |
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:05 pm Posts: 1286 |
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Maybe I should clarify something. I don't care if everyone but me drives a garbage wagon. However, if you're going to drive a dresser, it should be the best one MoCo knows how to make. I'm critcizing the bikes, not the bikers.
Lot's of consumer products are described as being "ergonomic." We toss this word around and apply the meaning to something akin to things like a handtool that is "easy on the wrist" or a chair that is "easy on the back." In that regard, I think a modern rendition of a 1936 engine that 'toasts your chestnuts' at a stoplight is not ergonomic.
BTW, MoCo's answer to that was not in fixing the engine, but including little plastic guards to redirect scalding air away from your scrotum. In fact, the R/D(?) at MoCo thought the condition was seious enough to shut off the rear cylinder if the engine idled too long.
Now, I'll be honest, I don't think 90% of the guys who buy dressers need them. As I've said, over the last few years my service writer reports that seasonal mileage on Electra-Glide-ish bikes dropped from 4K to 1K. In other words, about the same distance as my wife pedals a mountain bicycle. I think those tour packs really hold a bottle of oxygen, insulin, oh, and a carton of cigarettes and a few bags of Doritos. It's really not a 'touring bike' but a RUB status symbol.
Now, a guy like BI63 actually uses his bike. What a concept. He ought to have a nice one, that works. My guess is that newer dresser owners don't complain about heat (or any other problem) because they don't ride long enough to experience highway problems. For example, I am informed that there is a "lag time" issue with throttle response on 'fly by wire' dressers. When I asked about this I was told that it is a continual and recurring condition.
Yikes, if my thottle didn't work when, where and how I wanted, I would have taken the bike back the first time it happened, not 'later in the season.'
So, we end up with guys like me. We buy Harleys as raw material. We fix the immediate concerns (air filtration, downloads, seats and shocks) live with the bike for a bit, and then fix the rest. I did an oil cooler this season and I'm looking for a Sportster Low fuel tank a customizer wants to sell cheap. I find it odd that I can buy any just about any cosmetic googah for a 48, even have it custom built from the factory, but I cannot make it more than 50 miles without a fuel warning light going off.
Harleys are expensive. We should demand better stuff.
Edit: Because of my contempt for the unimagineably gaudy and useless design themes from MoCo, I shall now use the abbreviation R?D when referring to their present concepts. Not only is it easier to type, allowing me to use 'all caps," but it conveys my opinion more accurately.
"Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?" Brad Pitt as Achilles in the movie 'Troy'
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