I just answered a thread on gasoline, and it awakened an opinion I have. That is, we are not getting reasonable, useable bikes from MoCo. We're getting hype.

Yesterday as I left the shop I saw a suburbanite pull out of the parking lot on a boated/bloated out Electra-Glide-ish bike while wearing a white T-shirt, Bermuda shorts and sandals. Clearly, he wasn't touring to Sturgis but riding home. Here, that's under ten miles. My service rider tells me that the average yearly mileage on a touring big-twin is 3K to 4K miles. And our showroom is crammed with unsold Electra-Glide-ish bikes.

And yet, that's what we are spoon-fed. Huge bikes we don't really need, never use and most times don't even buy. However the very idea of not having a "big bike" shrivels our cojones. Yikes, a 120-inch motor is twice the size of the first EL.

As you know I fantasize over a "Sportster-Glide." A bike a 'little bigger here, and a lot smaller over there.' It runs on pump gas, goes at least 100 miles between fills, utilizes the idea of a unit construction engine, runs a lot cooler, and yikes, might even have some ancillary liquid cooling. You know, a bike we can actually ride.

And why not? Do you think the idea of reason is ever going to dawn on MoCo? Of course not. We will get even bigger motors in stock Harleys (either a variant of the 120R, a Wedge, or a standard yet bigger S&S or JIMS engine) before a truly useable bike sees the light of day.

My 'sister' Ginger went from a Sportster to a Road Glide. Dumped it already, and had to trailor it to Sturgis this year. Flatly, not her bike. Frankly, a Dyna Fat Bob fits most of our needs--better braking, better lights, and size we all know works. But good luck with that idea. We will never check our egos at the door.

Edit: BTW, does anyone here know how to do a photo-shop version of a fantasy bike? We could render it for the forum.

Having been on a Ultra for the past 2.5 years and prior to that a combo of a 1963 rigid,1983 FLHS and a 1996 Buell S2T for 25+ years I find the Ultra the riders motorcycle of choice for the discerning motorcyclist. The fact there are varying options of geezer glides to include the sporty Street Glide, Road Glide,Road king etc...is really cool.

To further drive my point home... yesterday, I drove a friends 2010 Wide Glide from storage to his home..70 miles. I absolutely did not like it and missed my over the top creature comforts. Compared to my Ultra it felt tinny,fragile (italian) and not something I would enjoy riding for too long, never mind cross country. Then again I am 55,old,over weight and set it my ways. I would probably have enjoyed that wide glide 20-30 years ago.

So if your a fluff rider who is scared to ride to far... sure a dyno sporty is perfect, actually any more and you'd be a poser. If you're a long distance road dog you'd be foolish to go with anything else but a Ultra or some derivitive(RG,RK,EG etc..).

I know it's just me, cause the motor in my bike is plenty good enough. I never had any illusions of super fast road king, just a reliable comfortable fun to ride and cool to look at bike. I love the simplicity of it, no downloads or crazy heat problems. What ever they did back then was the right bike. Unfortunately, the MoCo observed what some were doing, and will always do, bigger - faster - more, more more... and just started following that trend. Now you can't get a bike like mine, 80 cubic inches with a simple carb. Its not fast, and neither is a luxury car. My ears fill with the music of the engine, my smiles stays bug free with the windshield, what more could a biker ask for?

Most of the "creature comforts" can be fulfilled with better rear shocks, inverted front forks, seats designed for the human body and better brakes and headlamps. You give me a current Fat Bob, and a few hundred dollars of the purchasing clout MoCo must have, and I can easily outfit a bike so good you'll never go back to women.

Items like a windshield and some form of music are minor concerns--because custom paint actually costs more. But a decent engine--tuned for reality--coupled with handling and ergonomics would clearly appeal to most HRF members. Remember, we actually ride our bikes.

I truly believe that most of the MoCo target market is better at reading sales brochures and leveraging monthly payments than they are at driving the motorcycles. The joke I heard when I threw my original Sportster shocks away concerned actually riding and not polishing. But when you get done laughing you have to consider why that joke is used so often.

Talking about engines I was at my local dealer today and all the 2012 baggers have 103 ci engines and oil coolers stock. So I asked the sales guy about what was the difference between the 96 ci and the 103 ci all he said was that it had more horse power and more torque. And continued to state that MoCo does not quote numbers.

There you go folks.

Bigger is always better!

Humor aside, how would you like to limp a scalding hot Electra-Glide around my city with its tight angle turns, broken concrete and start-and-stop Beltline traffic? We simply place far too much importance on "looking fashionable."

My service writers comment gets you thinking. Yes, there are members here who easily pile on five-digits in discussing mileage. But with the overall average of 3K to 4K that means the best touring bike made spends the majority of its life parked.

I prove it to myself over and over. There have been many years where traveling on the slab was the majority of my miles. The majority. However, everytime I bought a smaller bike my mileage easily surpassed those figures. If MoCo really wants to sell Elephant-Glides, all they have to do is include a case of chrome polish and a stack of micro-fiber cloths, because that's what most of their owners do.

Bigger really is better--for sales. However, in this particular economy, the showroom floor is still packed with Glides. Oh, I believe Glides are more cushy to ride, that is, when they're driven. The age demographic is high for HD owners, but what happens when we cannot lift these bikes off of the kickstand? Will we be parking and polishing trikes? Better bikes! Built it, they will come.

My only bone of contention with your position is well you have never owned or ridden one and 2 fold. 1)A street glide is a sporty touring model made for local bar hopping yet more than capable of going cross country in style. It varies from the total cross country package in many ways. So its okay to register 3-4000 miles a season. The street glide has the dual capacity to bar hop with style but take a weekend trip in relative high level of comfort compared to a sporty,dyna etc...

2)Your position on creature comforts being easily adapted for by better shocks is based upon what? You've never ridden a geezer glide for any reasonable miliage comparrison. If you had you would realize its way more than simply better shocks. What compares with air shocks that you can put on a Sporty or Dyna or softail?

The Ultra by comparrison to the wide glide I road the other day, never mind a sporty, made me feel I am commanding something that owned the road. The wide glide felt lith,light and not something I'd want to be on for consequetive 4-500 mile days. The owner will be coming back from Afghanistan in September and thinks he wants to take off for a couple days...ha ha I look forward to it and I am sure once we get back he'ss be looking ta baggers.

If someone wants to own a bagger to simply ride to work and back...its a waste but his/her choice. I think if common sense applied before one chose a motorcycle it woulb best be purchased based upon what kind of riding that was going to be done. To say creature comforts compared to an Ultra can be met by a simple shock replacement...unrealistic.


And as far as nimbleness of handling an Ultra...watch a "Ride like a Pro" video then report your thoughts,lol. Ultgras and other geezer glide baggers are not popular for "looking fashionable". They are the all purpose and practical every mans Harley.

I guarantee if ytou were to pull the trigger on one you're only regret was not having done it sooner. Come to the dark side, you'll be better for it,lol.

PS...I'm not agin a sporty and would love to have one to ride to work only. And when my long distance days are over for safety sake thats just what I'll own. Until then baggers rule!

BI63, I always respect your opinion. On this topic we might differ, but not in total disagreement.

My history of "no Glides" position is indeed accurate, but as a push/pull thing. I've never owned a Glide because I never wanted to. I just want the entire line of bikes to be better. Consider this, do the choices we are offered must only be two camps? That is, we must either choose bikes that are comfortable or bikes that are sporty? Why can't small and middle-weight bikes be comfortable? Or appointed for reality?

I never said we should burn all Geezer-Glides. But hey, BI63, the average HD consumer does not ride like you do. In fact, I probably know only three or four guys like you who do use a Glide as it is built and advertised.

As for refinements, just look at Betty and Spinner. In terms of real dollars and labor costs, both bikes have more invested in their suspensions than in their motors. As for power, that ship sailed years ago. When engines sized between 1500cc and 2000cc sizes developing 100/100 torque and BHP exist, why is R/D aimed more at even greater size? Why do any of us have to buy better shocks, Sundowner seats, a second disc brake, or Spinner's headlamp?

In truth, they might as well re-name the big bikes "Badinfluence-Glides." You're one of the remaining few who use the bike. The attributes that you value on your bike should be on all bikes. Sadly they are not. However, we both know that there's a huge new motor running right now at MoCo R/D.

One thing we have in common is the ability to be smart and realistic about our wants and needs. We have both been there and done that, that was instantly established when we first ran across each other about 8 forums ago(LOL) for both of us and the subsequent phone conversations.

If the MOCO keeps going bigger and faster its inevitable that a radiator will have to be incorporated. And that won't go over big at all. That will almost signal the end of HD's popularity and put a premium on the older bikes. As it is as of last year or 2009, Harley does not make sidecars aymore. Those would be good investments for the future, better than stocks.

80CID,5 speed and 5 gallon tank was more than enough. 96",6 speed and 6 gallons was unecessary and over the top. EFI sux arse too.

I am digging the improved styling of Harleys today compared to when I was a whipper snapper.I think the MOCO's is second to none. I don't think its appreciated until you are 2300 miles from home in the middle of the Mojave desert and you get home with no malfunctions what so ever.

Harley puts out a basic solid product and its up to you as the consumer to customize it to your liking and body type (short/tall,young/old,fat skinny). Thats always been a Harley deal.

When I upgraded my iron 2-3 years ago I bought 2 used Ultra's for the price of one new one. The one I ride the most and with my wife I totally customized it to out liking.cosmetically and perfomance wise. And we love it! The other one with the sidecar I left bone stock.