Two seemingly different things happened yesterday that demonstrate my frustration with the art of negotiation. And both scenarios will becomes much worse due to immature conduct and foolish rhetoric. This should a lesson to us as bikers in the modern world.

First, my "adult job" was negotiating the business procedures for companies on the ropes. The story was always the same. Tight money, bizarre conduct, one department fighting another and rabblerousers barking end-of-the-world scenarios seldom grounded in any form of reality. I had to be the best plumber on The Titanic.

At present, our new Governor Scott Walker has a financial mess in our State of Wisconsin. The liberals have been in power so long that most think "spend like a drunken sailor" should be our state motto. One aspect is that our unions may want restraint, just as long as they get raises any time they choose. The classic NIMBY syndrome. And there is lots of hostility on the front page of our newspapers.

In a parallel move in a knife forum where I'm a member, yesterday I started a thread on testing a new version knife against that company's older product. That's all. What followed was lunacy. I shut the computer off to go to the gym and came back to an entire forum tearing itself apart. A bunch of the usual suspects--three known troublemakers--had used the "test" as an excuse to open old wounds.

As an old biker, my first move was to "clock the major drunken townie with a barstool." His rhetoric had set off the dominios and he needed a dose of reality. It was the classic fudds vs. children problem. I then got dozens of PMs as support from the older guys, one 30 minute phone call and a "thank you" from the forum's owner. The problem was that the lunacy continued. In an uncharacteristic move, I told the owner to politiely ask for peace, send me a PM asking for my resignationation for a ban, and I told him I would accept. In a word, I faked my own death.

True is, this was not my problem--the owner blew it months ago, and helped create yesterday's problem. And even the best negotiator can do nothing if the captain insists on hitting the iceberg. Frankly, I'm glad I'm gone. And like an ostrich, all the owner did was erase all of the posts, and pretend there is peace. We all know that he simply lit a future fuse.

If you're going to throw a punch, make it a good one. Before you shoot off your mouth, study your enemy. And before you enter a five-alarm fray, decide if more dry lumber is an asset or a liability. It's the same mistake, over and over.

Anytime members of a forum fail to conduct themselves civily in a beg to differ moment (people should be able to voice counter opinions on a subject w/out some azzholes thinking less of you for it). Its either time to move on or hope the admins du jour do the right thing.

To often, as you know, it easily and unfairly turns into a pig pile while the admins sit back and do nothing or they pass out bans like candy on holloween....wrong on both counts.

Failing to defend your position in a well spoken manner while respecting anothers counter opinion,instead resorting to proverbial chest pounding is b*llsh*t. You see it all the time. Not here thank God.

BI63, as a bro and also seeing bad forums together, we know how this thing can spiral out of control.

I was a new member there. The fighting had been going on for a long time. I unknowingly gave the children an excuse to act up. Now, I'm not afraid of a good fight--and I've had my nose broken twice to prove it--however, if the owner is a limp biscuit, why should I risk a beating to do his work?

The fix was in while I was out of the building. And for some unknown reason, this is the standard condition for all cutlery forums. I cannot think of a single good one, and a friend in Wyoming reports the same findings on the cutlery forums he knows. This is troubling, because up until 01-30-11 I was in the cutlerry business.

I had such hopes for the place. I don't like to leave a blood behind, but clearly, these are not my people, hence not my fight.

I've vested years on some forum only to have 1 or 2 posters agenda's fowl things up for me. I've also learned quick that as soon as it starts to stink I'm gone. I'll peak back from time to time if if the 2-3 shatheads are gone I'll resume posting again.

I also know that Tourist is an A1 guy. He talks the talk and he walks the walk. He has gone where posers only pretend to have gone.

Funny, one of the good guys I met on that forum said the same thing.

Essentially, he reported that he knew the troublemakers, wished they would be banned and lamented that the forum owner had (in the past) and would now be doing nothing. He suggested dropping out for a bit, and after several weeks making a short post. I nixed the idea.

Here's my thinking. Hobbyist forums do not have a mandatory membership. Unless you're a banner advertiser with a business to support, a hobbyist forum is for fun, and fun alone. Heck, I can find a-holes in my own area a lot faster and cheaper! I don't have to buy a lap-top, purchase internet access and become a forum a member just for the "privilege" of being insulted! Besides, in a tavern I'm allowed to handle the problem more directly.

And of all the lunacy, the blood-bath centered on a dispute over how which brand of pocketknives provide quality for sharpening! What a childish tantrum! It would be akin to some of us going to war discussing what brand of conchos are the shiniest!

I became a member there thinking I would learn stuff. All I learned is that any idiot can join a knife forum.

Oh, this keeps getting better!

I asked the owner of this knife forum to disconnect my account and show my status as "banned." It allows me to put this to rest, and protect my business (even retired I'm still selling and sharpening). However, a phone contact tells me I'm still a member.

A few minutes ago I had to send a PM to this forum's owner to request a ban. Yikes, how hard up for members do you have to be to refuse to flip a switch and grant a ban?

It's like having an employee of a corporation take a crap on the owner's desk, but only be admonished to "do better in the future."

Seldom do I lose total respect for some folks. I reserve that contempt for guys like Tiger Woods, Michael Vick, drunken townies and cagers who pick their noses at stoplights. I never thought I'd have to add "forum owners" to that list of shame.

Sounds like its time to walk away from the chalupa. At least for now...

I did walk away. I quit posting, sent a PM to the owner and considered the matter closed. A fellow member contacted me and told me the fight had continued and my membership was open.

But you're right. While I've deleted the forum address from my favorites and have left for several days, I guess the recent contact scratched off a fresh scab. It's 0500 here now, I've slept well, I have a great latte' in front of me, and I'm about to enjoy the newspaper. The problem doesn't seem so big now.

This is what I don't get about the 'net. Who won anything? I nice quiet place to discuss knives got stirred up by a couple of kids. Experience has taught me that probably a dozen low-key family men probably just serenely have also dropped out, but by being less vocal.

I do know one thing about my demeanor and temper. First warm ride in the spring, and if you mention this event, my response will be, "What knife forum?"

Well, the final chapter on this childish tale has been written. Doesn't anyone understand the concept of "brotherhood" anymore.

Now, I have little if any use for loudmouths who stomp out of a forum. You guys know that no one actually cares, and more times it's "good riddance" proposition. The owner might have been guilty of "criminal wussory," but it's his life, his conscience and his forum so he gets to hide out in his mom's laundry room if he chooses. I may have left, but he still has a problem with disruptive children. Again, his problem and his alone.

I have no intention of ever going back, so I decided to fall on my sword. I decided to begin a thread call "make peace," I lied that I had been in contact with the owner, we discussed options and I decided to accept a ban. Perhaps the verb "lied" is not correct. All of that was in fact being negotiated, the guy just wussed once too many times. There were many good guys who loved that forum, and they had a right to enjoy their hobby. I didn't care one way or the other in staying, that forum had disappointed me, but that was a personal decision. I didn't want to penalize the good guys.

In falling on my sword I gave him plausible deniability. He could have quietly banned my account, and the matter would have been over in a short span of days.

For some reason he openly admitted--in print--that this action was simply my offer, he didn't do it, and didn't even negotiate that possible outcome. So instead of a quiet productive forum, the members opened the entire can of worms again. I knew something was up because I kept getting updates in my e-mail "spam trap."

Clearly, the adults needed to intervene. I signed on, entered my 'user option,' and scrambled my e-mail address. In effect, I banned myself. Just to check, nothing works now. No children can notify me, the owner cannot notify me, and now stymied, the issue will drop since there is no longer a chance for any response. My status is permanently affixed at "offline."

What the hell is wrong with people? Why do I have to kick some ass to motivate people do the thing they should have done in the first place? How does a man create a forum that he then tries to destroy by ignorance and neglect? I own my own business, and when problems arise there isn't an legion of elves to come to the rescue and magically resolve the problem. And truth be told, I'm even finding the same condition seeping onto those who own a Harley. This ideal is one BI63 and I often discuss.

Rant mode off, I have blown my top too much as it is. My disgust is more global than this singular issue. My brothers have a right to expect brotherhood. Perhaps it is time for the dinosaurs to leave the stage.

Nothing in life counts less then internet arguments I have come to find. While tempting and easy to fall into, once you step outside the box, the internet argument is seen for what it is.

I started poking about motorcycle forums not to long ago, couple years(2-3). Like Tourist I've always been a person who's preferred being able to reach and actually touch somebody when the moment arose..good or bad. This internet stuff was/is different and took awhile to get use to.

Presently and after much adjusting my approach, I consider myself a seasoned poster. When something starts going south, if I hold out hope for my future participation, I either simply stay away for a couple days-weeks or months. If I am really not happy and see no value, I will tell the offending individual(s) to suck my **** (weirdly enough one of the MODS and the admin over to HDforum actually offered to perform that request....of course I declined) and I am done. No reason to prolong it.