At Glider's suggestion I would like to start a thread on shocks as they apply to long distance touring. I think many times we just debate good vs. bad shocks or focus on performance without looking at distance.

It's an important factor for me. When I first got my Sportster 48, it wasn't the small fuel supply that immediately came to my attention. MoCo marketed the 48 as a town/saloon/cruiser, and the comfort factor was not too much of a concern. After all, it was a single seater, and you were only going to be on the bike for a few miles. The shocks had only about 1.5 inches of total travel, and I had just started a weight loss program. Just sitting on the bike ate up most of the travel.

Coupled with this, the stock seat was about the size of a catchers' mitt. These factors made the bike uncomfortable from the first mile.

The problem was my driving style and my philosophy that bikes are to be driven. After all, I had three previous Sportsters, and they were ridden no differently than my GoldWing. If I wanted to go someplace, any place, the bike got ridden. And the most uncomfortable longer distance hauler I had was a 900cc Kawasaki LTD. After a few miles you felt you were sitting on the frame rails.

With Progressive shocks and a better seat, the little 48 got road manners. And as I have stated, with a 4.5 gallon tank I'd take the little thing to Sturgis.

So here is a factor on touring I believe in quite strongly. In discussing the subject of 'touring,' we center on the obvious aspects of touring style motorcycles. That being, size and engine displacement, larger seats (for the driver and passenger), fuel range, glass, and luggage space.

In the category of "road manners" we seldom look at a premium suspension as a major contributing factor. After all, if you have a big enough seat the dampening can be akin to a pogo stick and no one seems to care. But besides comfort, the proper conttrol of unsprung weight and decent dampeners contributte to numerous factors. Stability down an acceleration ramp is a biggee for me. (That also includes a burst of speed when passing slow farm equipment). Braking. Stability on curves.

I talk to lots of bikers, both here and over coffee at the bike shop. I talk to many long distance riders. I hear about comfy seats and the 6th gear more than I hear about shock absorbers, stiffer swingarms and better front ends. In fact, I would bet that if pressed for information, these same long distance riders know more about the new 103-inch Harley motor than they do about the shocks they've used for decades.

With premium shocks going to 1,500 dollars, it appears that 'chrome' is more of an issue than stability. I disagree. Dampening is a very important factor in touring. I might not get very far on two gallons of fuel, but I ride the slabs. I have to steer and brake the same as a dresser over bumps, uneven pavement, rain grooves and drivers who brake like idiots.

I put more money into my suspension than in my motors.

Remember I owned and rode a rigid pan for over 20 years...so I know you're just talking chit now. A rigid is a kidney killer. An Ultra is a 2 up ride thru wonderland by comparrison...but how would you know you've never ridden either.

What say ye now Tourist?

Also my opinion is squed. Why? Being involved with bikes since 12-13 and been around them all my life(my father raced in the gypsy tour circuit during ther 50's and 60's) I have built bikes from the ground up and made what I thought were modifications to the factory production bikes. So at this age of 55 I prefer stock w/ a few modifications.

For example..when I bought my 2001 used in 2008 I have since added a shorter windshield,the angled TBag windshield bags(tapered on both ends to stay tucked behind the shorter windshield),the reach seat cause I am short, upgraded the twin cam(factory reccomended upgrade),put in a 204 SE cam and stage II download(I don't even know what that means and because at 12,000 miles the cam lobes were already showing wear),a XM radio(factory and also had to utilize the cool selection of ram mounting hardware to get the XM radio to set right. Ram mounts rock out),bagger nation 10" bagger bars(the stock were angled to narrow and hurt my wrists),better luggage for the tour pac and saddle bags and after market narrow mirrors.

But basically it was cosmetic and personal riders preference. As far as the twin cam upgrade an cam the stock cam was showing wear already so why not. Basically I think one is hard pressed to duplicate the reliabilty of stock and when you start messing with it you set off a whole domino effect of necessarychange. Case in point...got a good friend..Josh Renfrew..who loves and is a die hard sportster owner till the day he dies. He will start taking his Sportster totally apart Friday night, down to splitting the cases and have it buttoned back up by Sunday night...seriously. Any way he was racing his strokes and camed Sprotster against a Kawasaki GPZ 1100. He was jamming and blowing the Kaw away. He was going about 125mph in 3rd gear and when he shifted to 4th he sheared the bolts off the rear sprocket. In other words when you start manipulting the stock performance you have to inevitably go thru the whole bike to keep it reasonable balanced.

With glee, I say this is going to be a fun debate.

For example, I am also a consumer of old Harleys, Super Glides, Sportsters, some metrics and lots of highway miles.

You know me, I think any bike is a touring bike if the guy builds it right. For example there's a touring association comprised of older bikes--like knuckles and flatheads. Those guys probably do circles around both of us.

WingDingers beat everyone.

Having said that, even I don't think a kick-starter magneto XLCH with a peanut tank and ten year old shock absorbers is a touring bike. But in your heart of hearts you know that dozens of those guys go to Sturgis every year. Probably hundreds on hard-tails. Not my choice.

But a suspension has other attributes other than comfort. I have built Betty and Spinner so that any moron can scrape a warning nipple at will--and live to tell about it. I think it's an important issue.

I don't know about that. I doubt it. Defining tour by their standard might be they meet in a certain area "tour" together for the day. When I think of touring I think of multi day/weeks. I'm pretty sure those oldtimer bikes don't tour multi days/weeks....just saying.

Actually, most of the guys with heavy miles are retired--or at least big eaters! You know the WingDinger mantra, "Live to ride, ride to eat."

The guys doing the classic touring are usually serious hobbyists who have restored old bikes. For example, there are several amateur racing associations for guys who restored old cars. They don't put them in a glass box, they ride them.

There was a recent blurb in a Harley mag about guys riding old knuckles. As for parts, I'm seeing more and more outlets for repairing flathead parts, and one company that makes 'new and improved' heads.

The guys have more patience than I do. I usually find about about these guys in a pictorial showing a pristine 1930s Harley. The story is often "the guy bought it in a basket" and then tracked down all original parts after going to flea markets for 15 years.

Because of the flawless construction of these bikes, there's no doubt in my mind that every aspect and tolerance, from the spark plug gap to the seat springs, is probably better than stock and painstakingly adjusted to work perfectly. I hear vintage Indians ride like glass.

Another cool thing about HD....I never had a problem getting parts for my 1963 Pan. Good luck with a 10 year old Yamaha,Honda,Kawasaki,Suzuki.

Amen to that.

The only part I ever had trouble getting for clients at the old Decker's HD was those thick felt pads for the pans themselves. Truth be told, I had never seen a pan with them. I guess when they wore out some builders never replaced them. Now with the internet, you can find them.

Edit: Just to prove that, I googled "panhead felt" and found them at a place called denniskirk.com/
I never heard of the place, but the price was just about the same as in 1971.

deniskirk..highly reputable,great reputation.

Nice to know. Speaking of just the shocks, I still have this fantasy about building a "realistic" bobber type Sportster Glide out of a mixed bag of Sportie parts and a rebuilt/modern 1965 pan. And I mean 'realistic' like in "ride a lot."

Most of the pieces I've purchased in my lifetime were easily accessible for the time period I did most of the mods. I did have to go through a scrap pile one time to find forward control brackets for the 1971 Super Glide. The drilled and tapped lugs were there.

Al Decker pointed me to the pile and told me that the bracket I needed was for a front floorboard mount on a pan. Believe it or not, I found the bracket, and it fit like a glove. The hard part was getting one piece chromed at Northern Plating. I think they stuck it in with a vat of coat hangers.

This is the reason that every fastener and custom part is from Harley.