Eastern Performance Cycle Vance & Hines Fuel Pak Purchase on 7/31/2011:

This was one of the most difficult customer/seller interactions I have ever experienced. I purchased a Vance & Hines (V&H) Fuel Pak (FP) and a V&H Shortshots Staggered exhaust system for a Stage 1 upgrade to a stock 88 CI 2006 Harley Softail Deluxe from Eastern Performance Cycle (EPC) July 31, 2011. The air filter being used in this application was the stock Harley High Flow air filter. I bought the V&H exhaust system intentionally in an effort to eliminate any potential Fuel Pak problems or issues by creating a matched component environment.

As a point of reference I have done mechanic work on all of my own and other people’s vehicles since I was 16 and I am now 60, so I have a considerable amount of mechanic experience. Also, the FP distribution chain is, V&H sells to Drag Specialties and Drag sells to the retailer, which in this case is Eastern Performance.

It was extremely unfortunate that I only consulted the forums and did not talk with experienced Harley Davidson and Dyno techs that had worked with the Fuel Pak device. If I had, I would have never bought a Fuel Pak and would have avoided this entire drama. When I did talk with a Harley Davidson Mechanic who is the lead Engine Builder and Dyno tech at a local dealership and a Dyno tech that travels with a portable Dyno to racing events, including the Bonneville Salt Flats, I learned that these devices are difficult to get working like a TTS Master Tune or Power Commander, because V&H either will not or cannot provide Dyno techs with specific information about what effect incrementing or decrementing settings in the different modes is accomplishing which would enable a tech to correct FP fuel management issues using a Dyno. Therefore, anyone who has difficulty getting the FP devices working properly with the V&H FP application specification settings can only get help from V&H FP tech support team.

The Problem Situation:
After installing and setting up the FP and exhaust system there was a noticeable engine miss or stumble between 1800 and 2200 RPM. So, I dutifully call EPC to advise them of the situation to keep them in the loop, which seemed like the best thing to do since I had bought the FP from them. The EPC sales rep told me I would need to work with V&H to resolve the issue and I was okay with that. (All EPC phone communication was conducted through the same sales rep.) So, I called V&H and explained the situation to a FP tech. The FP install was validated as done correctly and an FP setting revision was recommended, which did not fix the issue. After the first four V&H FP revision recommendations and three additional conversations with the same EPC sales rep it was determined that I should work with a particular V&H tech rep to resolve the issue. Then there were an additional four calls to the V&H tech rep and three more calls to the same EPC sales rep keeping him apprised of the situation. All adjustment recommendations made by the V&H tech rep failed to resolve the issues. This entire effort took months right at the end of the riding season and the conclusion made by the V&H tech rep was, “your bike has a problem and it cannot be the Fuel Pak”. The EPC sales rep reiterated multiple times that “we have worked with V&H and installed 100’s of these without any problems.” Hmmm, Eastern Performance’s conclusion sounds a bit like the V&H position – the problem is your bike or the installation is at fault. So, the entire situation turned into a “stonewall” by EPC and V&H.

Eastern Performance’s after sales support was virtually nonexistent, with the exception of trying to convince me that the problem was the FP installation or the bike and not the FP. So, in my evaluation, Eastern Performance scores substantially less than zero from a customer support perspective. Whatever happened to customer satisfaction being a general business operating principle?

Well during all this time I had talked with the Dyno Tech mentioned above who recommended putting a DynoJet Power Commander V on the bike and set it up with the Dyno. So, after EPC and V&H concluded the problem was my bike and not the FP, I contacted a V&H sales rep and explained the situation and communicated that I planned to purchase a Power Commander (PC) install it, have the Dyno work done to validate the bike was not the problem. So, after buying the PC, loading the recommended map the bike ran better than it ever did with the FP and all running issues were completely resolved after the Dyno work was done. I then contacted the V&H sales rep again to let him know the PC and Dyno work resolved all the issues. (Also, everything I was told by the Harley and Dyno techs concerning this device was now confirmed.) The V&H sales rep set up a return authorization to ship the FP back to V&H where it could be tested for problems and the device passed the V&H test suite. However, based on the fact that the Power Commander and Dyno work resolved all running issues and the bike was obviously not the problem, but rather the FP was creating the issues, the sales rep agreed to refund Drag, who would refund EPC, who would refund me.

Finally, there was someone who was willing to help and make this entire situation right. A Huge thumbs up for the V&H sales and business management staff. The only caveat was there would be a 15% restocking fee, which the V&H sales rep agreed to reduce to 10%, which I was okay with. Then Eastern Performance, who is responsible to refund me the money I paid for the FP, enters back into the picture and things start going wrong again. The Eastern Performance restocking fee is not 10 or 15 but 20%, plus they processed the refund through Paypal incorrectly which reduced the refund amount another 3%. This Paypal refund was done after I had made a request to wait until we could discuss how to process the refund and so the Paypal money recipient fees could be avoided. Now honestly, what did Eastern Performance do that warranted a 20% restocking fee? I must say they did absolutely nothing but stonewall me and suggest either the device was installed improperly or my bike was the problem.

I went back to Eastern Performance again to communicate the details of how this situation was handled and they remain unwilling to negotiate and equitable solution to this problem. As noted earlier, I was more than willing to pay a 10% restocking fee.

Any and all the FP evaluation information I had received from the Harley Davidson mechanic and the Dyno tech as well as the Dyno tech’s recommendation to switch to the Power Commander V was relayed back to the EPC sales rep. The rep never gave the slightest indication that the PC was a better solution than the FP. He just continued to give me the same story about how they had installed 100’s of these and had never experienced a problem.

My conclusion, based on this experience, is stay away from Eastern Performance if you think you will need after sales support. Pay a bit more money and buy from a business that readily supports the products they sell and is interested in a long-term business relationship with the customer. Also, purchasing a Vance & Hines Fuel Pak is a risk at best if your goal is a finely tuned and well running motorcycle.

I can say in all honesty and with a clear conscience that through this entire process I maintained a patient, objective and civil attitude and did not attempt to take advantage of anyone. My final conversation with the EPC sales team lead got a bit emotionally charged after he informed me that EPC was unwilling to do anything further concerning this matter and I advised him that if this was their final decision they really left me no choice but to communicate this situation out to the forums. However, I remained civil with him there was absolutely no derogatory language used.


In an attempt to be fair, I sent an email with the above text in it to a person named Brian who I believe is a sales manager at EPC so they could see what I would be posting to the forums, if they remained unwilling to address this matter. Here is the email dialog in the order it was sent from first to last.

EPC’s 1st Response, note that Brian does not really address any of the issues noted in the text other than the Paypal fees I was charged on the refund and he essentially admits that I should not expect the Fuel Pak to perform as a Dyno tuned device:
Glen, the refund method that you received was not done incorrectly and I encourage you to check with paypal on that matter. We could not refund your original purchase as a normal refund would be processed because of the time that has passed. The situation is unfortunate and we have attempted to help you throughout this process. I am exhausted with this and want this to end as I am sure you do as well. What is the amount that you believe that you were shorted? I will go to the returns dept tomorrow and discuss this with Susan. I do not like to be threatened by customers or anyone for that matter and what you did this morning was just that. When you tell someone they can either do something or else that is a threat and the letter that you wrote I am sure you will get many supporters online that will rally behind you because they will hear only your side of the situation. I am sorry that a tuning unit such as the fuel pak did not work for your bike and had you said that you wanted the most precise tune that a dyno can provide my phone reps would have told you to use a power commander or thundermax. The fuel pak is a great unit for what it is and has effectively tuned thousands of motorcycles but if you want a perfect 100% tune then a unit that can be used in conjunction with a Dyno or autotune which costs hundreds of dollars more in some cases is what you needed. So with this I am done so you tell me what you think you are owed by Eastern Performance and I will determine if this is a fair figure given the unique situation.
--
Thank you,
Brian
Eastern Performance Cycles
410-451-5181

My Reply to Brian’s email:
From: glenn webster <glennrwebster@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:11:19 -0800
To: Brian Account<brian@easternperformance.com>
Subject: Re: Return

Brian, i do not remember the name of who the person i spoke with about refunding the money after i spoke with Susan concerning the refund. When i called back Susan was busy and the person i talked with assured me that he would get word to Susan asking her to hold the refund until we could talk about how the refund could be processed to avoid Paypal recipient fees. i called back because i was concerned about incurring recipient fees if the refund was processed through Paypal and i explained to the person who took the call.

i really do not see where at any time during all of my communication with Derek, who i spoke with exclusively regarding this situation from start to finish, where he once tried to help me with this problem. The only thing that came through in all his responses was that i did not have a problem when in fact i did and he was unwilling to give any credence to what i was attempting to convey.

You are exhausted? This has been the most exasperating post purchase experience i have ever had, mainly because both Eastern and Vance & Hines refused to acknowledge there was a problem and it lasted over five months.

My comment to you earlier today about posting information to the forums regarding this situation was not a threat. i was merely attempting to communicate that your "final" decision left me no choice but to take the action i deemed appropriate. This was not a coercion tactic but rather and effort to communicate concisely the consequences of Eastern's decision.

As far as supporters rallying behind me because i would be telling one side of the story is concerned. Are insinuating that i have not presented the truth in what i have written? As i have conducted myself fairly, honestly and civil manner during this entire situation, so i will with i post. Everything i wrote was factual and as it happened. In my estimation it is Eastern and the V & H tech rep who have been unfair by being unwilling to acknowledge there was a legitimate problem and insinuating or communicating directly that my bike or FP installation was the problem.

Regarding your phone reps advising me that a power commander or some auto tune system would be a better choice, i communicated everything to Derek that was being communicated to me about the Power Commander V by the Dyno technician and there was never a response from Derek that the PC V would provide better engine tuning or operation. i also communicated to Derek the information i was getting from the Harley mechanic and the Dyno tech i referred to in the letter concerning the Fuel Pak device difficulties and there was never any response that the Fuel Pak was a less capable device. i can honestly say that i never really felt like Derek was receptive to any information i attempted to provide him with.

Relating to your comments about the Fuel Pak being something that is less than a "100% perfect tune". i would need to admonish you to show me the information where this device is promoted and marketed as such or something less that it's competition. As someone with considerable mechanic experience, i would never spend hundreds of dollars on something to put on a vehicle that would create and operational effectiveness of anything less than 100% and frankly i do not think anyone else would if they knew that would be the end result.

Something else i learned while i was doing research related to motorcycle auto tuners is they do not monitor the engine environment effectively and make compensation changes quickly enough. Auto tuners that do the job correctly are extremely expensive. This is from a person who has experience with racing auto tuners.

Brian, i am very disappointed in your response to what i wrote because you/Eastern have avoided taking any responsibility for this entire situation. At this point i really do not see how or where Eastern is justified in keeping any of the money i paid for the Fuel Pak that by your own admission is essentially inferior to a Dyno tuned power commander when it is promoted and marketed to the contrary.
glenn

Brian’s reply, which again does not address the concerns raised:
On Jan 24, 2012, at 3:14 AM, brian@easternperformance.com wrote:
Glen I spoke to you on the phone when susan was busy and told you the same thing I told you in my previous email and phone conversation. The transaction is too old to be refunded as a purchase. Check with paypal if you do not understand. I am going to exchange any more emails with you on this matter. I offered to you last night a solution and you continue to argue. You did not tell me what you thought was a fair refund at this point as I asked so I cannot help you any further.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

My last reply to which there was no response and there has been no communication since. What really makes absolutely no sense about this entire situation is that EPC would be willing to jeopardize much more business profit than the $30 refund asked for:
My response email to you was to address the points made in your email and not an attempt to argue with you.

If Eastern is willing to refund an additional $30, i would consider that a reasonable resolve.

glenn